tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post2744206943919599351..comments2024-03-20T00:37:30.189-04:00Comments on Photo Business News & Forum: 10 Questions for Mannie GarciaJohn Harringtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16941161605443479300noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-10280496654487791942010-08-07T09:45:05.240-04:002010-08-07T09:45:05.240-04:00One thing that i learned in photography business i...One thing that i learned in photography business is that you have to take care of yourself or else no body will take care of you<a href="http://dviraz.com/my-review-of-black-decker-cm1936-cordless-electric-lawn-mower" rel="nofollow">.</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-65777489459748752362009-09-23T23:40:41.032-04:002009-09-23T23:40:41.032-04:00Good review. I really liked the HOPE poster and ow...Good review. I really liked the HOPE poster and own a copy of it, as well as another Fairey Obama image, it does make me feel a little uncomfortable, as a photographer, knowing that Fairey didn't bother to get permission, pay for usage, or credit a hard working photographer.usdrhttp://www.us-edrugstore.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-82149724279893478342009-02-09T21:34:00.000-05:002009-02-09T21:34:00.000-05:00"I think Chicago photographer will agree with me t..."I think Chicago photographer will agree with me that the point here is to never, ever sell or transfer your copyright."<BR/><BR/>I would indeed agree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-66771158116733825392009-02-09T20:28:00.000-05:002009-02-09T20:28:00.000-05:00Free Shepard Fairey Or Not<A HREF="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49419783953/" REL="nofollow">Free Shepard Fairey</A><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48372859887" REL="nofollow"> Or Not</A>enhagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06003915148636783489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-33729730262988392992009-02-08T20:34:00.000-05:002009-02-08T20:34:00.000-05:00AAAARRRGGGGHHH! These comments remind me all too s...AAAARRRGGGGHHH! These comments remind me all too strongly why NYC ASMP (American Society of Magazine Photographers) meetings used to give me a migraine! Huge, poorly informed egos, myself included. <BR/><BR/>Most of the above is, when not nasty, ignoring applicable law and the implications thereto, long established. For example, whether the poster is culpable as "derivative". The law does exist that a copy cannot be made directly into another medium without permission, so the reference to "morons" speaks for itself. "Look and feel" legal cases are extremely expensive, as you are required in court to statistically prove through actual opinion sampling whether there is a perceptual match or not. This, however, is irrelevant as the artist or an agent of the artist has declared in public that he used the photo in question. That would make it a certain copyright violation if the copyright owner did not give permission. <BR/><BR/>For the basic purposes of copyright, the creator is defined as the person who presses the shutter. That does not preclude easy initial registration or transfer of the copyright to someone else under ready circumstances, which might be the case here. <BR/><BR/>As for the inappropriate remarks against AP, I really wonder how many of the commentators are full-time, professional photographers, not awesome Flickr dilettantes? It is very hard to make a living as a photographer, most especially as a journalist. AP has an excellent reputation for the way they treat photographers. Without such an agent the "zen photographer" here would probably not have been working in the circumstance of ready access to Obama. In a status without a written contract, the details become extremely important. <BR/><BR/>So the artist says the Obama people supplied the photo. Sounds like a lawyer may be on board already. If so, they are [also] culpable for a copyright rip-off…Presidential pardon? The photographer sounds like a really nice guy but, my friend, you are a knucklehead for not being represented by an attorney as there are millions of dollars at stake here. You become a philanthropist after you make your money not before. I cast no aspersion on AP with that advice. A rich photographer is an oxymoron! Although I suspect the non-contract hire gives AP the copyright (because they automatically register copyrights upon distribution) a good lawyer can always make a deal, especially when there is huge public attention; nobody wants to look like a bad guy. <BR/><BR/>As for my credentials, I was a moderately successful fashion photographer for 20 years in NYC, had covers on Pop Photo & American Photographer for my involvement in photography itself. I had images requiring legal protection almost every year and was successful in recovering damages. My fee for giving the above advice is to let you know about my first photo book, "Real Views", due this year. It is on "zen" visual awareness for the amateur snapshooter.<BR/><BR/>Douglas Hopkins<BR/>http://tiny.cc/6JZfiAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06573321447649600349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-151173154198395022009-02-08T19:04:00.000-05:002009-02-08T19:04:00.000-05:00I don't remember Andy Warhol getting successfully ...I don't remember Andy Warhol getting successfully sued by Campbell's Soup.<BR/><BR/>I don't remember any photo realist painter getting successfully sued.<BR/><BR/>This isn't even photo realism, its posterization, with a completely different background.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-16918074061581158982009-02-08T04:08:00.000-05:002009-02-08T04:08:00.000-05:00Poster art is not a photo, and no law exits that ...Poster art is not a photo, and no law exits that says you can't create an original work using a photo as a guideline, and it's been done millions of times.<BR/><BR/>Morons will have us believe you can't even use your eyes, without attributing the owner of what they see.<BR/><BR/>Mannie is going to learn how the AP made him a total fool.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-57182032213293930412009-02-07T13:29:00.000-05:002009-02-07T13:29:00.000-05:00Chicago photographer said..."I should clarify what...Chicago photographer said...<BR/><BR/>"I should clarify what I was saying about the copyright attorney, as you're probably right about that in this case because of its high-profile nature, but is applicable to all of us in "regular" infringement situations. One of the crucial provisions that a registered copyright provides is that attorney's fees are awarded IN ADDITION TO any damages awarded. That is important financial assurance to any legal team contemplating representing a plaintiff."<BR/><BR/>"This is true as well, but I'll just add that it's important to note they are limited to actual damages, which have to be proved. An expensive and cumbersome process, (A registered copyright presumes the damage, easing the plaintiff's burden of proof) and the attorneys fees will need to be paid out of those damages by the plaintiff."<BR/><BR/>I agree with both of your points. I also forgot to mention that along with actual damages, which you correctly state are often hard to quantify, a winning copyright plaintiff can also be awarded punitive damages. Punitive damages are often much larger than the estimated profit from an infringement, and have largely to do with how egregious the infringement and whether the infringer was willful and had knowledge of copyright law.<BR/><BR/>I remember this occurred in the landmark Koons copyright case where that no-talent a--hole Jeff Koons flaunted his "right" to steal anybody's work and claim it as his own. The circumstances of the infringement in this instance are very similar, although Fairey may be stand up guy that just made a big (and costly) mistake. The test of an infringement is whether a "lay person" would say that one work was derivative from the other. Period. There is no "percentage of difference" test whereby a derivative work must be altered by a given amount in order to qualify as a new work. And especially in this case, where it is blatantly obvious that Fairey's work was copied from Garcia's, the "infringement" test is a no-brainer.<BR/><BR/>I think Chicago photographer will agree with me that the point here is to never, ever sell or transfer your copyright.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-27457486171034372482009-02-07T11:57:00.000-05:002009-02-07T11:57:00.000-05:00Quoted from previous:"I do not believe that Garcia...Quoted from previous:<BR/>"I do not believe that Garcia's registration (or lack thereof) of his image with the US Copyright Office will have a significant impact on how eager a good copyright attorney will be to take his case."<BR/><BR/>I should clarify what I was saying about the copyright attorney, as you're probably right about that in this case because of its high-profile nature, but is applicable to all of us in "regular" infringement situations. One of the crucial provisions that a registered copyright provides is that attorney's fees are awarded IN ADDITION TO any damages awarded. That is important financial assurance to any legal team contemplating representing a plaintiff. <BR/><BR/>Quoted from previous:<BR/>"But absent the registration, he is still entitled to pursue recovery of any profits made as a result of the willful infringement, which we know to be very significant, as well as share any profits that will be subsequently realized."<BR/><BR/>This is true as well, but I'll just add that it's important to note they are limited to actual damages, which have to be proved. An expensive and cumbersome process, (A registered copyright presumes the damage, easing the plaintiff's burden of proof) and the attorneys fees will need to be paid out of those damages by the plaintiff.<BR/><BR/>And yes, we love our pizza out here!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-41856572720723312732009-02-07T02:16:00.000-05:002009-02-07T02:16:00.000-05:00You go Chicago Pizza Boy! That's hitting it on the...You go Chicago Pizza Boy! That's hitting it on the head.<BR/><BR/>This coming from a guy who retained his copyright to a fleeting under-valued moment that exploded a month later in a plane crash. I turned the bloody thing down - Dooh!!<BR/><BR/>It's a plain case of robbery and Fairey is a professional who knew as much.<BR/><BR/>Copyright it everything.<BR/><BR/>Whatever happens, and I hope Mannie gets his just deserts; Fairey needs to give credit and compensation where it's due. Without the original he'd have nothing...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-23819107205036055512009-02-06T17:29:00.000-05:002009-02-06T17:29:00.000-05:00"Chicago photographer" is correct in the assessmen..."Chicago photographer" is correct in the assessment that the previous poster had an incorrect understanding of copyright law. However, I do not believe that Garcia's registration (or lack thereof) of his image with the US Copyright Office will have a significant impact on how eager a good copyright attorney will be to take his case.<BR/><BR/>Registering his copyright would have allowed Garcia to pursue statutory damages which could have been significant monetarily ($100,000 per infringement). But absent the registration, he is still entitled to pursue recovery of any profits made as a result of the willful infringement, which we know to be very significant, as well as share any profits that will be subsequently realized. You can bet that if there were not huge dollars at stake, AP would not have injected itself into the dispute.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-86864285573429592912009-02-06T09:59:00.000-05:002009-02-06T09:59:00.000-05:00Anonymous said...Regardless of the fair use issue,...<I>Anonymous said...<BR/>Regardless of the fair use issue, I'm thinking this is a fairly cut and dry case of "work for hire" is it not? He got paid to make photos that day, he was there because he was paid to make photos that day. Without a contract saying he retains copyright, seems like the AP owns the image, no? Isn't this another case of having "no contract" being a bad thing? Maybe I'm missing something, but I bet that's the conclusion AP has drawn.</I><BR/><BR/>DUDE - get your facts straight about copyright. It is only work for hire when the contract is a work-for-hire contract with both parties signing the document.<BR/><BR/>If not document is signed, then the copyright stays with the creator, ie, Mannie.<BR/><BR/>Your conclusion is misleading and incorrect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-87796120200263951812009-02-06T01:28:00.000-05:002009-02-06T01:28:00.000-05:00Really interestin interview and topic. Thanks.Really interestin interview and topic. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-18693832951727086792009-02-06T00:27:00.000-05:002009-02-06T00:27:00.000-05:00Iconic image? The poster was iconic, the photogra...Iconic image? The poster was iconic, the photograph was not.<BR/><BR/>"We'll take care of you." Yeah, like the mob "takes care" of you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-40706173198525636842009-02-05T22:11:00.000-05:002009-02-05T22:11:00.000-05:00@ Anonymous one comment up. You have the concept o...@ Anonymous one comment up. You have the concept of copyright entirely backwards. Copyright is bestowed to the creator of the work by default immediately upon creation of a work. It is only a contractual agreement that would transfer copyright from the creator to another entity (in this case AP), regardless of any money paid. Mannie indicated that he was not an employee and had not signed a contract. If those facts are accurate, then it is cut & dry that Mannie owns the copyright. Retention of copyright does not happen by contract. The big copyright question is: "is the copyright registered." That has a huge bearing on how eager a lawyer would be to take the case and what type of verdict remedies would be available.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-54508465301716378972009-02-05T17:51:00.000-05:002009-02-05T17:51:00.000-05:00I'm with Mannie on this one. For those who say his...I'm with Mannie on this one. For those who say his image was nothing special without Fairey's treatment of it, you insult everyone. Fairey chose that image because it embodied something that he was trying to express: HOPE. He could have chosen another image, but he didn't, he chose Mannie's Obama. <BR/><BR/>While I really liked the HOPE poster and own a copy of it, as well as another Fairey Obama image, it does make me feel a little uncomfortable, as a photographer, knowing that Fairey didn't bother to get permission, pay for usage, or credit a hard working photographer. There are many artists who could draw Obama from memory based on all the images they have seen of him over time; clearly Fairey is not one of them. He needed the original photo to create from, and so I see it as a collaboration. Except for the fact that Mannie was not given the choice to participate.<BR/><BR/>I wish Mannie all the best in resolving this.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18202827284195204452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-44416021298680261002009-02-05T16:12:00.000-05:002009-02-05T16:12:00.000-05:00Regardless of the fair use issue, I'm thinking thi...Regardless of the fair use issue, I'm thinking this is a fairly cut and dry case of "work for hire" is it not? He got paid to make photos that day, he was there because he was paid to make photos that day. Without a contract saying he retains copyright, seems like the AP owns the image, no? Isn't this another case of having "no contract" being a bad thing? Maybe I'm missing something, but I bet that's the conclusion AP has drawn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-89918577348884414362009-02-05T15:06:00.000-05:002009-02-05T15:06:00.000-05:00"This is not about me making money off this, it's ..."This is not about me making money off this, it's about recognition. I made the most iconic image of our time, and I'd like it to make a difference, not make me money. I'm a blue collar photographer - I am out there on the grind every day. I spend more energy looking for work than doing work. I just want Shepard Fairey to say "alright, you're the guy. Thank you."<BR/><BR/>He didn't make anything iconic. Fairey's stenciled image was iconic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-30942626629945621462009-02-05T14:21:00.000-05:002009-02-05T14:21:00.000-05:001 - I would not trust the AP as far as I could thr...1 - I would not trust the AP as far as I could throw it. They eat their own for a living.<BR/>2 - The other real question besides did he sign anything that might back the AP's claim: did he register it with the copyright office in a timely fashion?<BR/>3 - I hope he has a kick ass lawyer on this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-13959650078140064922009-02-05T11:45:00.000-05:002009-02-05T11:45:00.000-05:00In my career in photography; my findings have been...In my career in photography; my findings have been negative when a client does something outside my terms of agreement with my photos. I've found that the first sign of trouble usually comes when I notify the client that they've done something wrong with my images and they reply "we'll take care of you"<BR/><BR/>Be careful MannieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-28440617750268614842009-02-05T08:10:00.000-05:002009-02-05T08:10:00.000-05:00JohnMannie and I have been friends since we met in...John<BR/><BR/>Mannie and I have been friends since we met in Germany back in the 1980s, a year after he made photos of the Ramstein Airshow Disaster winning the World Press Gold Medal for spot news, and we have remained close keeping in touch no matter where in the world either of us are. It's an honor to call a straight up guy like him a friend.<BR/><BR/>I'm also glad to see his side finally get out there in the public.<BR/><BR/>I keep reading comment after comment on different stories -- not here as much -- of people bashing him as a whiny photographer just wanting his part of the pie. If people knew Mannie they would understand how untrue him wanting money or a piece of the pie.<BR/><BR/>I just hope that people understand, not only that he isn't in it for the money, but for what was done to his image was wrong, very wrong.<BR/> <BR/>Someone's copyright was taken advantage of and that is the biggest point in all of this. Whose, well that will be interesting as well when the dust settles. <BR/><BR/>Scott MillerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7553278593406733377.post-71747942126727671602009-02-05T02:24:00.000-05:002009-02-05T02:24:00.000-05:00Thanks for this great interview with Mannie. I re...Thanks for this great interview with Mannie. I really like his approach to this and his photography and can relate to it very closely myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com